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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with Alex O’Connor and Richard Dawkins to discuss their differences of view on the Abrahamic biblical texts, truth claims in science and fiction, the extension of memes through Jungian archetypes, and the memetical reality of dragons.

This episode was filmed on September 30th, 2024

Richard Dawkins is a British evolutionary biologist, zoologist, science communicator, and bestselling author of books such as “The Selfish Gene,” and “The Genetic Book of the Dead.”

Alex O'Connor is a philosophy-oriented YouTuber, podcaster, and public speaker. He graduated in 2021 from St. John's College, Oxford University, with a BA in philosophy and theology. In 2023, he launched the “Within Reason” podcast, which has featured guests including Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Rory Stewart, amongst others.

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| Links |

For Richard Dawkins:

On X https://x.com/RichardDawkins?ref_src=...

On YouTube    / @poetryofreality  

The Genetic Book of the Dead (New book) https://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Book-D...


For Alex O’Connor:

On YouTube    / @cosmicskeptic  

On X https://x.com/CosmicSkeptic?ref_src=t...


| Chapters |

(0:00) Coming up
(1:21) Memes vs. archetypes: what creates depth and fundamentality
(6:34) “The battle between the gods” is portrayed across cultures
(8:41) The world of facts is seen through a story
(10:24) “Drunk on symbols,” the spirit of Cain
(17:23) Were the biblical texts divinely inspired or did they evolve?
(24:36) What escapes our grip: the biblical text and quantum physics
(28:04) Dawkins clarifies his claim on being a cultural Christian
(32:41) Truth claims in fiction, both sexes carry the image of God
(34:24) The virgin birth and the absolute need for a value hierarchy
(43:06) The preconditions for the scientific enterprise
(46:19) The Resurrection and the bronze serpent
(56:32) The divine and the mundane, the biological reality of dragons
(1:14:30) Different kinds of minds, the logical extension of memes
(1:19:54) The Baldwin effect applied to memes: a fundamental concordance
(1:30:20) Is Richard Dawkins more interested in things or people?



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